The Problem of Evil and Suffering - and Other Topics
If God is A Loving God, Why do we have evil and suffering
The problem of Evil is the problem of what to do about Satan
If you're willing to believe there is a Creator God and it is the God of the Bible, then you'll need to read the Bible to find the answer to the problem of Evil and Suffering. As stated elsewhere on this site, the problem of evil is the problem of what should God do about Satan? The Bible tells us that sometime before the creation of Adam and Eve, Satan rebelled against God and wanted to replace God. That's a problem that God could not allow to happen and theologians tell us that there a references in the book of Revelations that indicate one third of the angels rebelled with Satan. The problem is should God have simply annihilated Satan and the fallen angels and tried again? Or somehow find a way to make use of them to assure that sanctified beings (believers) would never under condemnation again. God chose to create mankind and to expose us to evil and suffering, even to experience it. The point is for us to learn to hate evil as He does and to appreciate what we have with God when we are with Him in the life to come. He wants us to be part of the fight against evil as He defines it in the Bible, and to build community and fellowship with each as we support each other and care for one another. We are being immunized against sin by going through what we go through while being cleansed and purified by the Holy Spirit in this life.
Why Does It Matter If People Believe The God Of The Bible Is Real? Why Is Evidence For God From Creation Necessary?
The Gospel is Offensive to Those Who Do Not Believe the God of the Bible is Real
One of the purposes of the church is to help people believe the God of the Bible is real and therefore we should take the message of the Bible seriously. The Gospel message of the bible is offensive to those that do not believe that the God of the Bible is real but it is Good News to those who know God is real. Our purpose is more than just building communities of faith, nurturing families, or providing comfort and encouragement. We have been avoiding the task of helping people believe the God of the Bible exists (mainly because we did not have evidence until now). If people believe the God of the Bible is real, people will be more open to hearing the Message of Salvation.
Why is evidence for the God of the Bible needed rather than Philosophy to help people believe that God is real?
Most people in western society do not believe the God of the Bible is real due to unanswered claims that science debunks the creation account of the Bible and therefore the authority of the Bible. Evidence beats philosophy. If people don’t know or believe the God of the Bible is real then they are not open to hearing the Message of Salvation and our evangelism efforts will fall flat and fail. Evidence from creation/science is needed to counter the arguments atheists have used to discredit the creation account in the bible and the authority of the Bible.
Are we really supposed to Love God with our Minds?
In the last 30-40 years, God’s creation has now provided the conclusive scientific proof the universe was created from nothing just like the Bible says and also that the sequence of Genesis 1 matches what happened during the development of the earth. Both of these facts require the God of the Bible to be real as they could not have happened or be known otherwise. God provided this evidence for us to use. If He provided it, we should use it as part of our evangelism efforts. If people understand that the God of the Bible is real then they will accept the authority of the bible to tell us our relationship with God, then people will want to take the Message of Salvation of the Bible seriously as well.
What Is The Attraction Of Atheism? Why Have So Many People Turned From God?
Undermining the Cosmological Argument
The historical Logic argument for the existence of God had been that the universe was created from nothing – which requires an outside agent (God) to bring it and us into existence (this is called the Cosmological Argument- first stated by Aristotle). Creation from nothing violates the 1st Law of Thermodynamics.
It was intuitive that the universe had been created so the resulting logic argument for God was solid. The historical evidence for Christ then completed the intellectual argument for the reality of the God of the Bible. God was not created so the question of Who Created God is meaningless and silly.
No Scientific Proof the Universe had a beginning – until space age.
In 1787, Immanuel Kant in his publication Critique of Pure Reason acknowledged that there was no scientific proof that the universe had been created and so it was reasonable and rationale to believe there was no God if one chose to believe that. However, he also said it was ok to still believe there was a God
The problem of suffering
Other Enlightenment philosophers (David Hume, etc.) questioned how God could be good and all powerful since evil and difficulties happen to all of us – is there a morally acceptable purpose for suffering?
Age of the Earth and Sequence of Genesis 1
Scientists discovered the age of the earth to be billions of years, not a few thousand as Genesis seemed to claim
The sequence of creation week in Genesis 1 did not make sense as the sun, moon, and stars do not appear until Day 4 – after light, the land, and plants have appeared.
Theory of Evolution
In 1859, Darwin argued that animal species can naturally evolve with enough time – which eliminated the need for God to develop animals and man.
Universe looked static and unchanging
Prior to 1929, Astronomers saw only our Milky Way galaxy– static and looking eternal.
Most scientists believed the universe was eternal until the modern space age evidence of the Big Bang/Cosmic Creation Event for its beginning.
Natural Formation of Amino Acids
In the 1950’s, Scientists discovered that under certain conditions, amino acids could be formed which they then used to argue that life could spontaneously and accidently happen on its own as a form of chemical reaction.
This turned into a dead end for evolutionary biologists however. Atheists also claim that any unsolved mysterious event like Origin of Life will be solved by science and that religion only uses “God of the Gaps” arguments to claim God’s miracles.
So the primary logic arguments for atheism have been
eternal universe,
age of the earth longer than what Genesis indicated,
Sequence of Genesis 1 is wrong, and
Evolution.
If one part of the bible fails, the whole bible fails so the historical evidence for Christ has not been enough to counter atheist arguments.
Finally – it is more attractive to most people to believe themselves to be the master of their own life and not want to seek reconciliation with some unknown and invisible god. The major media pushes this message hard along with ridiculing Christians.
Are Nature And The Bible Supposed To Agree?
YES – the Bible clearly claims the testimony of creation as evidence for God’s authority and the teachings of the Bible. The authority of the Bible is based on the Cosmological Argument – The universe was created from nothing with a beginning which requires the existence of a creator God.
In Job 38, God claims His authority to rule from the act of creation
In Romans 1, Paul claims that all creation is witness to God and that all can see there is a God from creation
Hebrews 3:4 states the Cosmological Argument nicely – Every house has a builder but the builder of all things is God.
Christianity is a religion based on historical events over a long period of time, not on the teachings of one man over a few decades (Islam, Buddhism, Confucianism, Mormonism). Eastern religions claim the universe is eternal (Hinduism, Buddhism etc.). If it had a beginning, their basis is fatally flawed. Islam does not have a creation account. All non-Bible based religions can thus be eliminated from consideration, so only Deism or Judeo-Christian are reasonable and rational just from creation of the universe from nothing.
The Bible goes one step further in creation and gives a sequence to the creation of the earth and of life on the earth as viewed from the surface of the earth in Genesis 1. This sequence has now been confirmed as correct once the changes in the atmosphere are understood from thick dark cloud, to overcast, to clear after the plants/photosynthesis cleared the air of greenhouse gases and the land formation slowed down. This narrative provides evidence that God is the God of the Bible as the only way the bible could get the sequence correct is by divine revelation. A non-personal god would not have provided this information to mankind so Deism is out.
Can The Days In Genesis 1 Be Longer Than 24 Hours?
YES – the days of Genesis 1 can be interpreted as being longer than 24 hours
Adam and Eve did not die within 24 hours of eating the forbidden fruit as they were told they would die on the “day” they ate it. This is the first indication that the word for Day in the creation account might be longer than a 24 hour day. Death still came into the world for people through one man just at Paul wrote while animal death had been occurring already. There was a reason the tree of life was needed in the Garden of Eden.
The Biblical Hebrew word for day “YOM” was the only word available to indicate a period of time – Biblical Hebrew has a small vocabulary. YOM has multiple uses/meanings including a “long period of time.”
Psalm 90:4 written by Moses and 2 Peter 3:8 both say that with the Lord, a day is like a thousand years and a thousand years like a day. So a “day” can be a long period of time.
There are problems with using the genealogies in the Bible to date the earth and Adam and Eve – See Appendix. We are better off saying we don’t understand the genealogies than in saying the Big Bang is not the biblical creation of the universe from nothing because creation had to have happened some 6000+ years ago rather than 13.8 BYA.
Creation Of The Universe From Nothing Is Correct
First Evidence universe to have a beginning – 2nd law of Thermodynamics
By 1850, the 2nd law of thermodynamics was understood – all energy systems decay.
If the universe was eternal, it would have already decayed and therefore cannot be eternal.
Theory of General Relativity
Einstein’s equations from the Theory of General Relativity (1917) indicated the universe was either expanding or contracting – but not static. General Relativity makes many other predications which have all been confirmed as true such as gravity is actually the bending of space-time, change in rate of time with altitude/speed, orbit of planet Mercury, black holes, and gravity waves. etc.
Primeval Atom Theory
Lemaitre in 1927 argued universe was expanding and in 1931 he proposed it had originated from a primeval atom or singularity.
He calculated that there would still be a heat signature or radiation level that could be detected with the right instruments – called the Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation
Expansion of Universe Verified
The astronomer Edwin Hubble (space telescope) discovered the universe is indeed expanding in 1929 – Red shift. Expansion of Space-Time, not just the movement of galaxies within Space-Time
CMB Discovered
The Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation that Lemaitre predicted was discovered in 1963 by scientists working for Bell labs. This confirmed the Cosmic Creation Event/Big Bang. The CCE is an expansion (like a balloon being filled with air), not an explosion.
What About Suffering And Other Atheist Arguments?
The bible gives some justifications for God allowing evil to persist for now
In Job, God shows that Job’s good works are not able to save him. God saves us because He loves us, not because He owes us anything from our goodness or efforts.
God is preparing us for heaven. He wants us to appreciate heaven and thus allows us to experience hardships. Adam and Eve and Satan all sinned because they did not appreciate what they had with God. They thought there was something better available to them if they could have their own way/will and decide on their own what was good and what was evil. God wants us to appreciate how good it is in heaven by experiencing hardships while living on our own here in this life. Ultimately, being a Christian is about answering the question “Whose will be done? Thine (God’s) will be done? or My will be done?”.
How can a loving God send people to Hell?
God does not send people to Hell, but He does not allow chaos in Heaven either. If someone choses their own will over God’s will, they would cause chaos in Heaven – so God made a separate place for them. Choosing your own will is a very lonely experience.
Aren’t all religions the same?
This is a Hindu based argument. It is also telling God that He is stupid and that Christ’s suffering and dying on the cross to free us from sin was not necessary. Christ had asked the Father if it was really necessary for Him (Christ) to go through that suffering and death the night before He was crucified. It is something of a mystery as to exactly why that was necessary for our salvation but it was – or it would not have happened.
So Why Have Atheists Been Winning The Culture Wars? Can We Do A Better Job?
Its only been the last 30-40 years that science has actually confirmed the biblical sequence in Genesis and the last 10-15 years that the science has been accessible to the public via internet.
Atheists are not keen to tell this to the general public.
Christians have been reluctant to interpret the days in creation week as Epochs and to allow for animal death before the fall of Adam and Eve.
If we focus more on the confirmation of the universe created from nothing, and the sequence of earth’s development in Genesis being correct, we can make use of the testimony of God’s creation in sharing our faith and not just telling people to believe because of our own faith experience.
Atheists have been very vocal in making (now) unsubstantiated arguments that the bible has no Cosmological Argument that it can stand on as well as philosophical arguments against God from suffering.
Atheists have argued that allowing for a creator God would stop the inquisitiveness of science.
This is not true as the early scientists of the reformation period wanted to know how God’s creation really worked. Christian scientists still want to know how God’s creation works.
The Bible says there are laws of nature and hints that we can discover them. Discovering how God’s creation works is part of loving God w our minds.
Christians have focused on the historical evidence for Christ as evidence for the bible. This is necessary but not sufficient . Without showing the evidence for Genesis, Atheists are free to continue their narrative about Christianity being empty of evidence for a Creator God which undermines the authority of the bible and most people then discount the evidence for Christ.
Christians have been using arguments about man’s longing to connect with something greater than himself as evidence for God. While this argument is true, it does nothing for proving the God of the bible and atheists just belittle this argument.
Christians have been fighting each other over whether to use this evidence as it acknowledges the days in Genesis as actually referencing Epochs rather than true 24 hour days and whether animal death happened before the fall of Adam and Eve. The issue is over the interpretation of scripture as necessary for its inerrancy (both Old Earth Creationists (OEC) and Young Earth Creationists (YEC) agree on the inerrancy of scripture but not on its interpretation) and what is the reason for suffering?
The Old Earth Creationists (OEC) submit that Psalm 90:4 (written by Moses) and 2 Peter 3:8 both allow for interpretation of the word YOM (day) as also meaning a long period of time. Young Earth Creationists (YEC) argue that Psalm 90:4 and 2 Peter 3:8 are allegorical and not relevant to the day- age debate. YEC point to Exodus 20:8-11 as indicating Moses meant 6, 24 hour days. OEC submit that there was no word available to the author of Genesis (Moses) other than YOM (day) to mean a long period of time. YEC say there was another word available. OEC say that word did not come into use until well after Moses wrote Genesis. Let the reader decide.
The other question is about the occurrence of animal death and suffering before the fall of man. OEC says the answer is that the death that Paul refers to in Romans 5:12 coming into the world from Adam is human physical and spiritual death and not animal death. If there was no death of any kind before the Fall, there would not have been a need for the Tree of Life in the Garden of Eden to keep them alive. Also, they would not have known what God was talking about when God warned them to not eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil lest they die. YEC argue that sin alone is the cause of physical death and suffering. However, in the book of Job, God states that Job experienced suffering and hardship so that Job could understand that he (Job) could not save himself through his (Job’s) own righteousness (Job 40:6-13). God saves us because He loves us, not because God owes us anything based on how righteous we have been. This issue is over what is God’s purpose in allowing any suffering to happen and whether it is only a result of sin coming into the world.
The current argument is similar to that between Galileo and the Catholic church over whether scripture allowed for the earth to orbit around the sun or not. Galileo provided scientific evidence to the Copernican theory of the Sun at the center of Earth orbit while the Catholic Church insisted the scriptures said the Earth stood still and everything else revolved about it (which actually came from Aristotle). The current argument over Genesis is much more complex than Galileo’s situation. Both OEC and YEC agree that salvation is through faith in Christ alone, regardless of interpretation of Genesis v Science.
Science Argument Vs Jury System Argument
Why Do Christians Need To Know The Difference?
Science Arguments or Proofs are based on repeatable activities – if this action happens, that action will follow. They are useful for establishing how things work – such as automobile engines, electricity, airplanes, crime scene forensic investigations and testing the predictions made by the Theory of Relativity (Expansion of the Universe, Fixed speed of light, bending of space-time, time slows w speed, the weird orbit of Mercury, etc). The evidence can be used to make a Jury System/Intuitive Argument about whether or not something happened in the past – such as the CCE.
Jury System/Intuitive Arguments are about determining whether some event or person happened in the past (what would a jury decide?) – Did Caesar and Napoleon exist? Did Jesus exist and rise from the dead? Was the universe created from nothing? Did the earth develop like Genesis 1 says? Isn’t religion just something tribal rulers came up with to keep people under control? What evidence is there for these arguments?
All of Atheist arguments are Jury System arguments and are open to counter arguments provided there is evidence to support the counter argument. Christians have been failing to use the evidence available to make counter arguments against Atheism.
Atheists like to belittle religion as something tribal rulers came up with to keep people under control – yet they have not been challenged to produce evidence of this. There is no evidence for this argument. The counter argument is that people called on God to deliver them from difficulties. The history of religions shows that the earliest religion was monotheism – worship of the Creator God, but as man sought more control over suffering, he came up with many gods to try to control his life situation rather than call on the one true God.
Is The Scientific Method Biblical?
Yes – the Scientific Method is Biblically Based – which is why science started in the Christian west
The Scientific Method has four parts
State a Hypothesis or Supposition – It is going to rain today
Test the Hypothesis – watch the weather outside to see if it rains
Measure the Result – there no water in the rain gauge and it was sunny all day
Report on the Hypothesis – Hypothesis was incorrect, it did not rain today
Jeremiah 28 and 1 Thessalonians 5:21 both give the scientific method
We are supposed to love God with our Minds as well as heart, soul, and strength: Matthew 22:37
Using Reason As The Basis For Morality?
What’s The Problem With That?
The Enlightenment thinkers wanted to use reason as the basis for all things in life, including morality. They did not want to have a “fixed point” of truth such as the God of the Bible.
The problem is that people can rationalize just about any kind of behavior when they want to do so. In Atheism, there is no basis for right or wrong, just power.
Rationalized morality is how Hitler, Stalin, Mao, and others instituted mass murder of populations
Rationalized morality is how Adam and Eve got us all into trouble by eating the forbidden fruit
Many people do not like God’s morality, particularly when it come to sex – adultery, homosexuality, etc, and rationalize that if they are not hurting someone else, then whatever they want to do is fine.
Many people now wish to declare themselves morally superior to God. They should do that – and see how much good it does them. As Christians, we need to let God deal with people on moral/sin issues and just protect ourselves from the immoral people.
The God of the Bible says we are all born with a problem called Sin. We are all born as “junk”. God is in the business of turning “junk” into treasure. The first requirement is that we acknowledge to God that He is right, that we are “junk” and ask Him to turn us into His Treasure. He wants to do that for us, but only if we give Him permission to take control over our lives so He can make it happen. God does not force Himself on anyone. He treats us with great courtesy and respect in that regard.
Meet The Enlightenment Thinkers That Produced Atheism
David Hume Lived 7 May 1711 – 25 August 1776 or David Home (birth name) was a Scottish philosopher, historian, economist, and essayist, who is best known today for his highly influential system of radical philosophical empiricism, skepticism, and naturalism. He was the primary philosopher who questioned how God could be good and also all powerful if there was evil and suffering in the world.
Immanuel Kant German: 22 April 1724 – 12 February 1804 was a German philosopher who is considered the central figure of modern philosophy. Kant argued that fundamental concepts of the human mind structure human experience, that reason is the source of morality, that aesthetics arises from a faculty of disinterested judgment, that space and time are forms of our sensibility, and that the world as it is "in-itself" is unknowable. Kant took himself to have effected a Copernican revolution in philosophy, akin to Copernicus' reversal of the age-old belief that the sun revolved around the earth. His beliefs continue to have a major influence on contemporary philosophy, especially the fields of metaphysics, epistemology, ethics, political theory, and aesthetics. Immanuel Kant argued that it was not possible to scientifically know if the universe had been created from nothing and so it was intellectually and morally reasonable and rationale to believe the universe was actually eternal, and therefore there was no need for a Creator God. This undermining of the Cosmological Argument for God is the basis for Atheism. Up until the late 20th century, most scientists believed the universe to be eternal. He also argued that Reason was the only basis for Morality if there was no God. With Atheism, there is no basis for right or wrong, only power to take.
Meet Christian Scientists of the Reformation Period (1500-1700)
Sir Isaac Newton 25 December 1642 – 20 March 1726 was an English physicist and mathematician (described in his own day as a "natural philosopher") who is widely recognised as one of the most influential scientists of all time and a key figure in the scientific revolution. His book Philosophiæ Naturalis Principia Mathematica ("Mathematical Principles of Natural Philosophy"), first published in 1687, laid the foundations for classical mechanics. Newton made seminal contributions to optics, and he shares credit with Gottfried Wilhelm Leibniz for the development of calculus.
Johannes Kepler (German: December 27, 1571 – November 15, 1630) was a German mathematician, astronomer, and astrologer. A key figure in the 17th century scientific revolution, he is best known for his laws of planetary motion, based on his works Astronomia nova, Harmonices Mundi, and Epitome of Copernican Astronomy. These works also provided one of the foundations for Isaac Newton's theory of universal gravitation.
Kepler was a mathematics teacher at a seminary school in Graz, Austria, where he became an associate of Prince Hans Ulrich von Eggenberg. Later he became an assistant to the astronomer Tycho Brahe, and eventually he was the imperial mathematician to Emperor Rudolf II and his two successors Matthias and Ferdinand II. He was also a mathematics teacher in Linz, Austria, and an adviser to General Wallenstein. Additionally, he did fundamental work in the field of optics, invented an improved version of the refracting telescope (the Keplerian telescope), and was mentioned the telescopic discoveries of his contemporary Galileo Galilei.
Francis Bacon, 1st Viscount St Alban 22 January 1561 – 9 April 1626 was an English philosopher, statesman, scientist, jurist, orator, and author. He served both as Attorney General and as Lord Chancellor of England. After his death, he remained extremely influential through his works, especially as philosophical advocate and practitioner of the scientific method during the scientific revolution. Bacon has been called the father of empiricism. His works argued for the possibility of scientific knowledge based only upon inductive and careful observation of events in nature. Most importantly, he argued this could be achieved by use of a skeptical and methodical approach whereby scientists aim to avoid misleading themselves. While his own practical ideas about such a method, the Baconian method, did not have a long lasting influence, the general idea of the importance and possibility of a skeptical methodology makes Bacon the father of scientific method. This marked a new turn in the rhetorical and theoretical framework for science, the practical details of which are still central in debates about science and methodology today.
John Locke 29 August 1632 – 28 October 1704) was an English philosopher and physician, widely regarded as one of the most influential of Enlightenment thinkers and commonly known as the "Father of Liberalism". Considered one of the first of the British empiricists, following the tradition of Sir Francis Bacon, he is equally important to social contract theory. His work greatly affected the development of epistemology and political philosophy. His writings influenced Voltaire and Rousseau, many Scottish Enlightenment thinkers, as well as the American revolutionaries. His contributions to classical republicanism and liberal theory are reflected in the United States Declaration of Independence. John Locke derived the intellectual basis for representative government and the rights of man (life, liberty, and property) from the Bible – His political philosophy came after the English Revolution of 1642-55 (which lacked a system/basis for succession in leadership) but before the Glorious Revolution of 1688 which held the right to rule was derived from the consent of the governed.
Study on the Problem of Evil and Suffering
Our current situation: Genesis 3:8-24, Psalm 14, 53, Romans 3:6-31, 2 Timothy 1:8-9, Titus 1:2
On suffering, sin, and death of people – did Christ die to redeem animals also? - Romans 5
Did Decay/Frustration/Entropy come from sin?- Romans 8:20-22
Job 40:1-14 What did God teach Job through his suffering? Can we obligate God to bless us or save us?
How does God feel about evil? Do a search of “Hate Evil” in Bible Gateway. Genesis 6:5, Judges 3:7, etc.
To love God means to love what God loves; and to hate what God hates
How does God want us to respond to evil? Can we just live with or tolerate evil? Why must evil be defeated? Proverbs 13:8, Romans 12:9, Psalm 23:4, Leviticus 19:1-17, Revelations 12:7-9, Revelations 20:7-10
The problem of evil and suffering is really the problem of what should God do about Satan? Who is Satan? Why did Satan sin? What was Satan’s sin?. What were God’s options to solve the problem of Satan? Ezekiel 28:11-19, Isaiah 14:12-15, Revelation 12:4
Why Did Adam and Eve (and Satan) sin? Did they appreciate what they had? What was their sin? What were God’s options to get our attention? Genesis 2-3:7 Genesis 6:5- 8; Genesis 8:20-22
What does Satan do now? Could Satan have asked for forgiveness? John 12:31, John 14:3, Job 1&2, Matthew 4:1-11,1 2 Corinthians 11:13-15, 1 Peter 5:8